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Interview: Denis Goldberg

In the midst of the drizzle and pessimism of 4th Week at Oxford, I had the pleasure of meeting Denis Goldberg. Goldberg brought all the warmth of South Africa and passion of the campaign against apartheid with him to a small room in the Old Bank Hotel.

He travelled from his home in Cape Town to deliver a talk as part of the Oxford’s 10th annual Israeli Apartheid Week. The speech, entitled ‘The Prisoner’s Struggle: From South Africa to Palestine’, discussed his percieved similarities between the two states and how civil society outside of Israel/Palestine might support peace and justice in the region. Goldberg was the only white activist to be sentenced to imprisonment alongside Nelson Mandela in the Rivonia trial, serving 22 years in a Pretoria prison. He was a close friend of Nelson Mandela, describing “Nel” as a “tough old man”, and was present during his fi nal hours. Sitting across from Goldberg, I immediately admire him for refusing to retire from political activism. Aged 81, he has on numerous occasions condemned Israel’s systematic oppression of the Palestinians and is a strong proponent of the international campaign for boycott, divestment, and sanctions (BDS) against Israel.

He describes the current situation in Israel as being a form of apartheid, commenting, “One must go back to the international defi nition of apartheid, which was based on the situation in South Africa, but generalised from it to say that where there are laws and administrative practices and decisions affecting a minority of the population or section of the population separately and to their disadvantage; this is apartheid.”

He offers an illustration, referring to the Law of Return, guaranteeing Jews the right to live in Israel and Palestine, which runs parallel to the policy of denying Right of Return to Palestinian refugees.

Goldberg himself is of Jewish descent, although he says he does not identify with Judaism as a religion. Despite this, he still vehemently condemns what he calls “the policies of the Zionist state of Israel”. Indeed, for Jewish critics of Israel, such as Barnaby Raine, President of Oxford Jewish Students for Justice in Palestine, Goldberg “epitomises the long and proud Jewish tradition of solidarity in the struggle against injustice”.

This stance is strongly linked to his actions in fighting apartheid in Africa, “As a white South African, I fought against apartheid because it was wrong. Like Nelson Mandela and the comrades I went to prison with, it was so wrong we were prepared to lay lives on the line for the rights of people. I would not be part of the oppression.”

He encourages people to take part in the campaign for boycotts, divestment, and sanctions against Israel, explaining how he thinks they are effective means of breaking apartheid. He refuses to shop at upmarket shopping chain Woolworths, the South African answer to Marks and Spencer, because they stock products imported from Israel. He half-jokingly concedes, “We are a land of wonderful fruits and theirs are the best of the best! But,’” he asks seriously, “what does it cost me to eat an orange with flecks on the skin against one without flecks?” Continuing, he challenges, “What are you afraid of? You have the power.”

I ask Goldberg how significant boycotts, divestment, and sanctions were in the campaign against South African apartheid. “International sanctions against apartheid South Africa were, in the end, quite effective. Not just economic sanctions, but also sporting boycotts, cultural boycotts, although they were often broken. But nonetheless people with conscience tried to uphold them. In the end, economic sanctions and the liberation struggle in Angola and Mozambique in particular were key to the weakening of apartheid South Africa.”

He went on to tell me his firm position on institutions investing in companies affi liated with apartheid states, saying to such companies, “I demand you divest. You are part of the oppression of people.” BDS against Israel is very much a live topic in the student community. A motion calling for blanket sanctions against Israel was rejected by OUSU Council in 2013, whilst as recently as Wednesday, OUSU Council voted against an anti-BDS motion.

Goldberg explains to me how important it was for universities to use their influence in the campaign to break South African apartheid. He recounts a conversation he had over breakfast with trustees of the student’s fund. “The students had a campaign and I was asked to come and speak. I said why are you invested in IBM, they’re in South Africa? You should divest.” He purses his lips, recalling their reply. “Oh no, we can’t, they would remove the computers and so on.”

His response to this is characteristic of Goldberg’s boldness and outstanding commitment to justice. “Your job is to secure the money of the University, not to play politics. You should be charged in court for dereliction of duty… and if IBM threatened you, you would simply go public! The other big companies would have computers and software there the next day, they’d love it!”

Here lies a lesson for Oxford colleges, whom Goldberg challenges. “I know times are tough, but how about taking a stand on principles?” With news arriving at the final lecture of Isreali Apartheid Week that SOAS had voted by 73 per cent in support of an academic boycott of Israel, it seems that Goldberg’s hopes for the role of universities are materialising.

Goldberg embodies a commitment to empathising with others struggling to achieve their rights. This is something he encourages us to embrace. “I would like to see an understanding internationally that you can go on shedding blood forever or you can say, ‘I do care about the lives of Palestinian children brought up in refugee camps, in extremely diffi cult situations, and I care for their humanity.’” His compassion also extends to Israelis, as he claims that they are ultimately victims of ‘Israeli apartheid’ too. “I also care for the humanity of the young oppressors who become brutalised and de-humanised.”

Goldberg read Civil Engineering and during his imprisonment completed half of a Law degree. He clearly values the role of education in bringing about unity between people, expressing his desire for “our young people in particular because they are going to change the world – nobody else is going to do it – to understand the nature of the oppression”.

He goes on to highlight the importance of higher education. “I want young people to grow up knowing that it doesn’t matter what background people have, do you like each other? Can you be together? Can you enjoy each other’s company? I go to university campuses in South Africa which were once seas of white faces and now they are now the opposite, all our young kids can go. People are together.” He laughs, glancing at his lap as he considers relationships between young people. “In a way I rely on hormones to put things right – people can meet each other on much more equal terms!” Goldberg has spoken at many universities across the world, and blinked in surprise at the standing ovation he received from his audience of Oxford students at the end of his talk for Israeli Apartheid Week.

With 30 per cent of current MPs being Oxbridge graduates, Goldberg was keen to encourage integrity and morality amongst potential future leaders. “I would like to see young Oxonians, especially students of history, sociology, and politics understand that these are not theoretical subjects. They are about people’s lives. And as concerned human beings, one needs to take their knowledge and show their support against oppression. You can’t do this everywhere, at the same time, but there are enough of us with interests and connections to be able to pick our targets… Education is not just about facts and knowledge. It’s about values. What values are you upholding?”

In 1964, Goldberg was sentenced at the famous Rivonia trials to four life sentences. He was sent to a separate prison for whites, where he resided for the next 22 years. I ask him whether he ever felt like the outside world had abandoned him during these long years. He responds, strongly, “We knew we weren’t abandoned. We weren’t allowed postcards or Christmas cards for many years, and when they were allowed, each prisoner would get hundreds of cards from all over the world, from classes of children, trade union branches, churches, their leaders, and just ordinary people. It was very encouraging, I have to say. Eventually we were able to receive 12 cards and answer them. I’d always pick some I didn’t know… But to see a pile of cards like this,” he motions with his hand to the height of his chest smiling at the memory, “we were never forgotten.”

Goldberg has high hopes for the future of Israelis and Palestinians, picturing justice and peace. “I’m optimistic. If we can do it in South Africa after all those years of deep bitterness and psychological scarring, I think other people can do it as well.”

I shake hands with Goldberg, and step back out into the drizzle and swathes of tourists, snapping pictures of colleges. Goldberg had relayed intimately, in the space of half an hour, how ordinary people are instrumental in bringing about social change. It’s impossible not to feel a new sense of optimism and and empowerment as I walk away.

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